The only economically viable solution. Let Luna just be a chain. Forget UST

Summary
Remember Luna is still the Layer 1 token. Just as an L1 token for an amazing chain, it’s market cap will bounce back to something like ATOM’s (4B) from what it is now (200MM), that’s how you pay back any bag holders. If we cut off UST, who’s redemption is plummeting the price and congesting the network, Luna can return to so normalcy, and the entire network can survive, the foundation can survive.

Having built on plenty of networks I can confidently say the Luna network itself, without any currencies tied to it, is a better experience than Solana.

Know that if LUNA dies, UST dies; but if UST dies, LUNA gets to live.
So let’s disable Mint/Redeems on UST. That tanks UST to 0, but LUNA will be able to bounce back.

Motivation
I’ve seen the proposal for the rollback, and the only people happy with that are the validators and anchor whales.
It is too late to rollback and fork, that’ll just protect the validators by hurting the community. Cut your losses, save TFL, save the price of Luna, protect your community.

I see these proposals for airdrops or paybacks or redemptions, where do they think the cash is coming from? The only value we’ll get now is from creating value with a better alt-chain than other alt-chains.

Proposal
I think it is quite clear to everyone UST cannot survive.
So the proposal is simple. Let UST die. End all mint/redeems AND restart the current chain.
The reason Terra validators need to restart the current chain is because any fork of a rollback hurts the entire community of lunatics who bought on CEX’s or other chains to try to stabilize.
Plus the other proposal is riddled with discussions of what about holders of all the alternative forms of LUNA, what about CEX holders, alt-chain holders, LP providers, how should we balance the distribution, etc.
If we get into that discussion, no one will come out happy. The only “fair” thing to do is let market forces bring back the valuation of Luna.

If TFL really wants to help validators and hodlers, they can do a buyback now with whatever cash they have left while the market cap is low. But it’s unlikely they have anything left.

Plus a rollback fork means bridges don’t work, CEX’s can’t send/receive without an update, AND there’s no guarantee exchanges or bridges will ever bother reconnecting. Any new Luna network will live in isolation. Valuations will be up in the air because no one can price anything.
Adoption is hard, don’t go through that process all over again. Use the adoption you already have, use the chain you already have.

As a builder I want to keep building on Terra, it was a much better experience than Solana. The community is great, the dev network is awesome, the Cosmos SDK is easy to work with. I believe in the fundamentals of the chain, just forget UST.

As a user, I’ve never dealt with downtimes until today. The transactions are buttery smooth, gas fees are reasonable, the dapps are well developed. You have a great chain. Don’t lose it. Don’t lose the community that supports it.
At the end of the day, if you protect the validators and chase after what is already gone, then you’ll lose the trust of all your users, in which case everything is lost anyways.

Delusions
The people who suggest methods of paying back holders are delusional. TFL/LFG has basically nothing left, and there will never be an equitable distribution. The only payout you can hope for now is one where LUNA bounces back in price because we’ve salvaged the chain. Enough with the pipe dreams.

P.S. And of course it goes without saying, but don’t forget to disable paying gas in UST or any other currency coin.

TL;DR
MagicalTux’s reply puts it succintly:

MagicalTux

Many here don’t understand that UST needs LUNA but LUNA can be on its own. LUNA crashed because of UST. If this situation cannot be resolved then there is no point in saving UST, a failed project, that will crash again and again. But there LUNA should be left alone as it can sustain by itself just like any other crypto.

19 Likes

Yes its chain execution technology is pretty good. But now its economy get crashed hard. Terra_money’s main product is UST/xxT though… Without it what are you going to do with all these thousands of billions of Luna. F everyone?

It’s not clear to everyone that ‘UST must die’ because UST was the selling point of Terra. Luna alone in it’s current state and supply cap will never be a viable crypto, ever. What would be the purpose of it that isn’t the same as the other thousand shit coins out there?

5 Likes

Never be viable? It’s a great user experience, better than polygon, solana, fantom. Luna will bounce back if we re-market it as just a network without UST. The current state is pretty good. If you’ve had issues with it I’d love to hear what they are.

2 Likes

This makes more sense. Many here don’t understand that UST needs LUNA but LUNA can be on its own. LUNA crashed because of UST. If this situation cannot be resolved then there is no point in saving UST, a failed project, that will crash again and again. But there LUNA should be left alone as it can sustain by itself just like any other crypto.

8 Likes

Yes exactly. You get it.

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Yes LUNA without UST pegging will be like another shitcoin but it has better chance of surviving as a shitcoin then pegged with UST. Even dogecoin never crashed like this… it’s better to have a shitcoin than to have a coin pegged to UST, a failed stable currency that will bring down everything with it.

6 Likes

The Terra Network is great - fast and cheap. I fail to see the purpose of LUNA alone without it differentiation of the thousands of other cryptos out there - especially now with a supply cap of trillions. The selling point of LUNA was the tie in with UST. LUNA at this point is a joke and all the marketing in the world would be hard to change perspectives

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One big problem, aside from the many technical others, with focusing on “saving” Luna is that Luna never promised to be anything. I have unlimited sympathy and empathy for people who bought Luna thinking the algorithm was battle-ready. I really do, since I’m not too far from being the same boat. UST is hovering around 5-15 cents on the dollar and I can’t sell anyway so it’s effectively the same 100% loss for me as it is for Luna holders. But the far bigger breach of trust is with UST. UST promised to be stable. UST is therefore debt, not equity like Luna - we UST holders are OWED our money back.

Anyway, I think we can all agree, realistically, that there’s a lot of finger-pointing going on between Luna and UST holders, when really, “saving” neither coin is possible through technological wizardry and sleight of hand. It’s going to take actual change, measures to restore trust, and most of all, cold hard cash.

3 Likes

Supply needs to be bought back, so far the cost of buying back is roughly under 300million
and secondly unpeg from udt completely

then maybe Luna has some glimmer of hope.

I’m reading the proposals and all I can see is cheap manipulation and greediness by interested parties that seeking to abuse the situation!

There are many users, starting from big $B investors all day to individuals that hold one token, They have all been there for Terra! and they all lost and bleed EQUALLY the same %. Some of them bought more when the price went down, to recover their losses, others bought the deep as they were supposed to, believing in Terra that it may be bounced back, and maybe even a few probably contribute their funds from pure Ideology to support other people’s losses. At the end, they have ALL been there FOR Terra!!! each on his one way and all one big community keep fighting to go on, and bleeding as they do so. so now there is no room to leave ANYONE behind, regardless what are the reasons or timing they bought their tokens. first, because it’s not the right thing to do to other people in general and certainly not to Terra’s community that right now needs more than everything to regain trust in the project decisions. , and second, it will anyway not going to hold in court against class action law sue, due to obvious discrimination.

Everyone is EQUAL. it doesn’t matter if they hold Luna or UST, on-chain or off-chain, on terra networks or other networks, on their wallet or on their CEX wallet, if it’s staking or liquid. they are ALL EQUAL!!!

And if the decision will be to re-launch LUNA, or re-lunch UST, it’s fine. and if the decision will be to set a $10, or $1, $0.1, or whatever as a baseline price for Luna v2, it’s also fine. AS LONG that this baseline price and the ability to convert v1 to v2 will be open in a fair way for EVERYONE!

and if the decision will include special rules, like a staking period when converting v1 to v2, to prevent from dumpers hurting the v2 price, it’s fine as well, as long that those rules will apply to EVERYONE including the team and funders equally., NO ONE will get better terms over others. we are ALL on the same boat, now it’s up to us if you want that boat to survive or die due to the wrong decisions

3 Likes

Yes, the only way out is Cash. No money = No quick solution. The only other way is time… a phased recovery plan.

i fully agree with this… just rolling back would be unfair for many that did their best for the chain during the meltdown… and what about all those that had Luna/UST on all other chains (Osmo, Avax, One, FTM, etc.) in LPs to promote adoption? a decentralized stablecoin is probably the biggest challenge crypto has to solve and needs a massive collective effort to back it and achieve it. Maybe this can spark a new beginning for a wider coalition towards this goal.

2 Likes

I think incorporating a buy-back is not a bad idea. But TFL will have a really hard time getting that cash investment after this fiasco. I don’t believe they have any cash left.
I’d like it, but I think the chances are slim.

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Yes, this will take time for sure. Unfortunately I think we are in exactly that no-cash scenario.

Even if there is cash, it should be first made sure that this scenario will not play out again before using the cash to stabilise the situation.

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agreed

How would you proceed with the lowering of the supply then? Its too big at the moment

What about just offering a proportional amount? Say you own 40,000 Tera at the current max supply (I believe is 40billion), then if you reduced the max supply to 4billion, those who hold 40,000 Tera will be given 4,000 Tera in return.

Not the best solution, but it is a solution nonetheless.

A buy back is the traditional answer. I’m just worried they don’t have the cash. If they do, they should do it now that the market cap is so low.